By Insight Editor / 13 Mar 2024 / Topics: Culture & careers
For today’s leaders, the complexities of global teamwork and cross-collaboration can be overwhelming. But there is a way forward — it involves prioritizing shared leadership within the powerful framework of matrix management. Along with Michelle Reaux, VP of Human Resources at Insight, we explore the transformative potential of this model and discuss the valuable impacts it can have on team dynamics and leadership decision-making. As you’ll learn, with open communication, trust and a shared sense of purpose, you can enhance your organization’s culture and drive unparalleled success for your team.
To experience this week’s episode, listen on the player above, watch the conversation below or scroll down to read a complete transcript. You can also subscribe to Leading With Insight on Apple Podcasts, Pandora and Spotify.
Audio transcript:
How do you navigate this modern world when it comes to leadership? Today, we're going to answer that question in today's episode with a special guest and at Amplify.
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My name is Zee. And I'm Rich. In this episode, we'll delve into shared leadership and how it connects with Leadership Matrix. We do have a very special guest and very excited to introduce her. Yeah. Her name is Michelle Rowe, VP of Human Resources and also oversees the organizational development and leadership. Yeah. Just organization with development in general, but also diversity and inclusion. And not only that, but at a global scale. So give it up for Michelle, everybody.
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Hi, everyone.
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So if you haven't noticed yet, we actually have a live studio audience, which is our first ever. So no nerves at all. So we're good. We're good.(...) But Rich didn't get the memo. He did not get the fuchsia jacket. I didn't. I, I, yeah, I ordered it. It's on the way. It's on the way. It's on backorder. Yeah. Amazon Prime, buddy, Amazon Prime.(...) But with that, we do have an amazing topic to discuss with you. And a lot of you probably signed up maybe because you're either currently in a situation where you're in a organizational matrix, you may be shared leadership and you're kind of working with various different teams or just have a lot of questions and just curious, whatever your reasoning is for being here today. We hope we can answer that question for you. But Michelle, I know everybody knows you, but I know the folks online. May not know you. Um, tell us a little bit about yourself. What do you do for insight? Uh, so I'm Michelle Rowe and I, like you said, I lead diversity leadership and organization development. And so the team is really responsible for culture and engagement. So we really focus on bringing our teammates together. We focus on teammate engagement. We focus on anything that really, when we look at that whole employer of choice and why people want to be a part of insight, that's really what we focus on. Now, leadership is a big, big piece of that. A hundred percent. Now in today's episode, we're going to cover three things. We're going to unpack this whole term of shared leadership and what does that mean? Uh, we'll also talk about a framework, you know, what kind of frameworks are out there or what's on the way. And then finally, what are some best practices for leveraging shared leadership? Um, so with that, we'll go ahead and start with a few questions. Great. Yeah. So the first question is, can you kind of discuss a little bit about the whole management matrix and how that synergizes with, um, shared leadership? Absolutely. So, uh, you know, it's two different things that work totally together. And so what a matrix organization is, is where you have a group of people and some are dotted line to you and some are solid line to you. So there's actually more than one leader and there's more than one goal and responsibility and all of those things. And so it's a whole team working together. Now shared leadership is really that concept of that dotted line and that solid line working together and sharing that leadership and having that responsibility for every leadership commitment, for making sure that goals are aligned, communication is happening, trust is there. So it's really the shared leadership allows the matrix to be successful. So I guess my question, we have people here in the room, who actually here is currently working in a matrix type of organization raise your hand. So I would say about 25, 30%, maybe or more. Excellent. So again, if you have questions or anything that you want us to uncover or unpack, please go ahead and raise your hand. We'll, we'll have the mic out. But I guess my question for you is, um, so that's what it is, right? Definitely is it's multiple teams working together. With various leaders and kind of figuring out, okay, how can I add value, um, and, and accomplish some goals? Um, but you know, how does that help though? Why does that even exist? Why do we even have this matrix organizations? Well, there's a lot of different benefits to matrix organization, right? I mean, we talk a lot about hunger. We talk about, about our goals and our performance and the high performance and having different voices and different teammates from a leadership and a teammate perspective is incredibly helpful. So when we're looking at our business and really driving that business, it's, you have different people coming together to look at the client in a different way, to look at the teammate in a different way, to look at the business in a different way. And so you get, uh, just a different set of voices with different opinions working together. Now, having said that, that can also be a downfall of it. If you don't have the things necessary to actually make shared leadership successful. And I know we'll talk about that in just a minute. Yeah. We'll definitely talk about some challenges and I think that's where the hands are going to come up. But, um, so you talked about, right? Just different voices. There's a lot that you can add more, a lot of more value that way now, but it's by complex. There's probably some challenges there. But before we go into that, what's the, what's the impact if this is done right?
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There's so many impacts that this is done right. Oh my gosh. So, um, if I just think about what we're doing, we have such a broader reach. So everything we're doing is even more global, which is super exciting. So if you look at leadership programs that we do, or if you look at recognize that we do or anything like that, when you have that shared leadership, what you're doing is you're getting that reach even more and you're doing it through teammates who are really passionate about it. So if you take that and apply it to clients and you apply it to what our solutions team mates and our sales teammates and our teammates, many of you probably have a shared leadership situation where you have teammates that are in different countries that reporting to you or dotted line into you. And we have that as well. And so it's really getting, again, those different opinions, but really driving those results for that client.(...) So how does that necessarily impacts like decision-making and things like that with. So decision-making is a big one. So I do want to talk about some of the things that, um, I might be jumping ahead. I apologize to both of you, but honestly trust is absolutely key for shared leadership to work in a matrix organization. You have to have the relationships with those people who are leaders that are leading your teammates with you. If you don't have that, it's really, really difficult to come to consensus, to come to decision-making. One of the things that I have found is that, um, with the people that I share leadership with, with the teammates that we share leadership of, it's getting on the phone consistently. It's making sure that we are making decisions together based on what's happening in that region, what's happening in this region, what's happening globally, having open, honest, candid conversations, calling out issues as we see them, making sure that if we do need to make a decision about what's a goal or what do we need to be doing for that client or for that teammate, that everybody's voice is heard. And I think that what happens, what gets frustrating in shared leadership is that voices aren't being heard. Decisions get made without bringing that other person in. So say that, you know, Angela and I, so she is my Amia counterpart. So say that Angela and I, I'm making a decision for Magalie who dotted lines to her and solid lines to me and I don't get her involved. We're going to have an issue there. So when we're talking about Richard, it's such a good question about decision making. It's that we both have to be aligned on that. And we don't make those decisions without letting the other person know. It doesn't always mean that the other person is going to have a voice or a say in that because it could be her budget. It could be my, it could be like that, but getting that person involved and letting them know and having them in the accountability process is huge. So that actually goes into the next part, right? So we know what it is now. Hopefully we understand what shared leadership is and matrix organization.
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The next step is you just talked about trust, right? And in getting on the phone and just communication, but it's still a challenge, right? It's not as easy as we think it's easy said than done. What are the most common challenges that not only leaders, but also the teammates are dealing with that we want to start solving for, or at least bring to life to find a better solution. So the biggest one that we've run into, and this is not just from my team and what we've gone through, but everybody that we've talked to that's doing this from a sales perspective or solutions perspective. It's that the people that are dotted line don't feel as connected. They don't feel as if they're being communicated to, they don't feel as if they are being brought into what those goals are. They feel as if they're separate from that. So one of the biggest things that we can do to build trust is make sure that we're not only having our connection meetings with our solid line teammates, but our dotted line teammates as well, having all hands where we bring everybody in both solid and dotted, making sure that that entire matrix organization, when we look at those leadership commitments, we're looking at creating clarity. We are inspiring all of them. We are bringing everybody's ideas to the table. It doesn't matter. If you are solid line or dotted line to me, I want to hear what you have to share and then also working together to drive those results. And I think in order to do that, you must have that level of communication where everybody feels as if they are connected to that goal. That is one of the biggest pitfalls that people run into because what happens is, is that if you are here with me and you are here with me, but I have somebody in Australia and somebody in the Philippines, they feel disconnected because I'm not seeing them every day like I'm seeing these two. So we have to make sure that we are putting that time in, not canceling our one-on-one meetings with them, having those team meetings where everybody is involved and making sure that everybody is able to ask questions and that we're holding everybody accountable and recognizing them in the same way. Yeah. Let me, let me take it really back really quick. So, you know, matrix organization is not a new thing, right? We've had it for a while. But what we're looking at right now, especially here at Insight is that it's not your traditional matrix for the most of us. It's very unique and different. It's going to look different for some of you. If you, if you look across the aisle or somebody next to you and you share your structure, there's going to be some differences. Not only that because of global element, right? Offices all over the country as well. And that's why we, you know, the team and I have come together and we're actually working on trainings and ways that we can go ahead and provide that clarity for all teammates and leaders to understand their responsibilities and their roles. But also we're going to, we're looking at changing the name so it makes sense to us. So that's why when you solve shared leadership, that's what we're going to call it moving forward, right? Because if we say matrix organization, people just tend to think the traditional matrix. That is not the case here at Insight. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I promise a lot of you have different structures. So shared leadership to the core, that's what it is, right? You're sharing your leadership, ability, concepts, communication, and trust. I wanted to set that, that, that stage cause I totally forgot, right? We're just at the stage and I got all excited and I saw people in front of me.(...) But that's what, that's what is a little bit of clarity behind that. So, Rich, anything to follow? Yeah, no. So you kind of talked about a common theme and it kind of interval of there. And then you hit the keyword right on the head and communication. How important is communication with the shared leadership? And also, how do you go about optimizing it throughout? Yeah. So I would say honestly, the two most important things, anybody want to guess what two words I would say are most important?
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Talk more. Those are definitely good ones and absolutely true. The communication piece, like you said, and also the trust thing. So you are not going to get communication from people if they don't feel like they can trust you with what they have to say. And so you have to have that trust. You have to have that open communication. And I said it a little bit. It's those connection meetings. It's making sure you're having those town halls. It's making sure you're doing all hands. You're including everybody. You are bringing all of the dotted line or the matrix teammates in to all of the meetings that you're having about different projects or different goals. But also I think that making sure that the people on your team are also connected. And so one of the most important things that we have done is it's not just me having connection meetings. It's not Z having meetings with his direct reports. It's my direct reports having meetings. It's the dotted lines having direct conversations with each other and having connection meetings. So it's every single person on the team connecting and understanding what everybody does and knowing this is where I need help. This is how you can help me. This is what I can ask you for because I understand your incredible strengths. You understand my strengths. We know what we can do to really work together. And I think that's the biggest piece of that communication. But again the trust has to be there. And in order for us to get that trust it's making sure that people feel a part of it. You don't want anybody ever feeling like they're not. So I'm just I'm putting myself in the audience shoes and going OK. So more meetings is what I'm hearing. More meetings. Great. Well those should be doing those though. Right. Right. You should be doing this. But the thing about it is not just if you look at it just meetings and of course right you're going to come in with that attitude like more meetings more time I counter. But if you go into it intentional and you're being strategic and you're prepared in those conversations you're maximizing that opportunity. It's actually going to save you more time if there's alignment clarity and there nobody is working on things they shouldn't. Right. They're not everybody knows what they're doing. So think about the mindset when it comes to those type of meetings connections because I've seen I've heard from people going yeah I don't I don't have time for meetings. Well tell you what they're going to lose trust. Yeah. And there's going to be a lot of folks doing a lot of things not knowing if they're doing the right thing. Exactly. And it'll save you so much time in the long run too. And I think that's the big thing. And I look around and I see some of our LND teammates and you know we don't even have a dotted line or a solid line and we still all meet. So we make sure that we're all on the same page. So it even extends beyond that. It's everybody who's working toward that common goal. Yeah. I'm curious right now like like look around the room and see do you have a meeting set up or a cadence with anybody right now in this room. I know I do with you. Look at that. Good. Oh interesting. Yeah. I was like because I look around who is in this room. Yeah.
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Great. Yeah. So what are some best practices I know we've talked about communication trust you know connection meetings things like that. What are some best practices to actually you know successfully implement this. So I think that you know as the leader of these teams it's making sure that you are very intentionally managing all of that very intentional. Now we're all going to make mistakes. There's really things that fall off of our calendars and things like that but very intentionally managing it. But I also think that another piece of this is using some of those leadership tools that many of you have either if you've gone to say or if you've gone to purpose driven leadership or really any of them making sure that you have those leaders intense when you're doing a project when you have a program coming up when you have a bunch of different people involved so that you have complete clarity on what we're working toward how we're working toward it who is responsible. What are the timelines. Who are we holding accountable. All of those different things is a big one but also and this is going to sound very fluffy and it's not fluffy at all. But having that leadership philosophy and having every single person on that team solid or dotted understanding what your leadership philosophy is is absolutely critical and that is a phenomenal best practice because then everybody knows what to expect. They know what to expect from you as a leader but also from the team. Yeah. And again this is another opportunity right. All this work of going through you know the leadership trainings that we have the commitments and understanding of this is a moment for us to put it to practice and I've tell you if you if you start implementing that I mean our teammates are already they're familiar with these these these terms right. They're going through some of these trainings it's embedded in some of the workshops that we have. So they're hearing this. So guess what. The one of the questions asked is has my leader been through this training and I'm just like oh what. That's a testament there. Like what why are they asking this question is that we're not implementing right. We need to start implementing use the language that common language of clarity thought leadership inspire people and deliver results and the tools as well. Right. When we start using them when they work with another leader and they said hey let's go ahead and red team that they're not all looking at you like what are you talking about. Right. Right. It's like oh yeah let's go ahead and do that. Right. Let's dive into that. So this is a great opportunity for us to really start implementing and they're going to hold us accountable for it. Absolutely. Yeah. And talk about building trust. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well respect comes with that too. Yeah. Right. That's one of the biggest things that you know we've had challenges every single matrix organization will have challenges. I'm going to tell you that right now there will never be a matrix organization that doesn't. The big thing is making sure that when oh we can use it. We got music.
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Is that like the wrap up music. It might be it might be the big thing is making sure that every single person is willing to engage in those conversations to fix whatever it is that's going on. It's a big piece of it. All right. Again if you have any questions go ahead and raise your hand and we'll be happy to answer them. We'll get into there is a question there. So if you want to hand that over.(...) But I'm also the only thing I want to talk about is around career development as well. So song over here. Yeah.
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And we'll talk about that as well. But there's other other things that could come up especially locally in the office. So all right we're going to go to song and then we'll answer that question.
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Yeah. Great insights. So if I were the general of the aisle summarize it this way is matrix shared leadership is a powerful thing within an organization that can really drive results. But the two critical elements are trust and communication between the leaders and the team that they're leading. Right. What happens when and you shared a little bit about sharing leadership philosophies but what happens when maybe there's a breakdown in one of those spectrums where either the leaders are not communicating well or maybe one of the leaders isn't communicating well to the teammate and maybe there's different competing priorities or maybe there's like you know because obviously the solid line leader that controls the teammates bonus and merit you know has a lot of influence right.
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Versus the dotted line leader that may have all these projects and things going on that thing like these things are important but then there's a conflict between those two. How do we resolve that and how do we make sure that doesn't happen. So it's a fantastic question and I think that it goes back to that building of relationships. So the way that we handle that is we get on a video call pretty much immediately and have those conversations right. I've never gotten to a point where I've had to get any of that above leaders involved in anything like that. Thank goodness. But I do think that building that core team is critical. So again I'll use Angela and me as an example. We've had a great relationship for six years so we work really well together. But I'll tell you part of the reason that when things like that come up and we can address them quickly and with respect and a lot of trust behind it is because we have a larger group that meets all the time that is building that relationship constantly. So if you don't have that now so say you have teammates but you don't have that one on one with that leader so you're not building relationships there or you don't have a bigger team where you're all getting together as a leadership group and figuring out what's best get those on the calendar make those happen because that's what you can fall back on in order to figure those out and solve those effectively and kind of have that resolution.(...) Now the I mean really that's the only way to do it other than having those difficult conversations and difficult feedback. And that's a sitting down with that leader and saying listen this is what we're trying to solve for create clarity around that. Here's what we're trying to get to. What do we have to do in order to do that and just staying with it and building that relationship that way. But sometimes it is hard unless I brought up challenges right up front. It can be really difficult. Does it answer your question son. OK. Yeah. And it goes back to those leadership commitments right. Like hey if it didn't go well let's go ahead and do it again throw in another tool after action review. Let's talk about it. What went horribly wrong or what went wrong that we can fix next time that we can improve on it for our teammates. But then of course for the rest of the world. So if that doesn't work get Michelle and the involved. Oh yeah. Yeah. You just call me. I'll be happy to have a conversation with whoever you need. Yeah. Michelle only did not call me.
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So let's talk about. So yeah when it comes to bonuses and compensation that's huge right. So you have to have that relationship. You have to have that visibility.(...) But let's take it to another level. How about just time off requests. I get we get this asked right a teammate who is in the matrix organization. They're like I'm some time off. Do I just go to my direct leader. Who do I inform. And for us maybe it's common sense but you have to have these rules responsibilities ahead of time with those with that shared leader to talk about if this then what. Right. And tell your team give them some kind of chart or structure so they know where to go and who to inform because if they don't then guess what.
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Someone's on vacation but the other leader doesn't know and be like hey where are they. Yeah. You know what that's actually a really good point. And I think that there's some best practices there as well. Sending that meeting request to both the dotted line and the solid line leader is a phenomenal way to do it. Sometimes the easiest solution is the one that we should just absolutely go for.
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Absolutely. So any questions about you know roughly about five or so more minutes. Any other questions that you have challenges things that you maybe are seen that you know would be nice for us to discuss.
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If not Richard you have any questions. I have one question back here.
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I obviously work for Michelle if you all don't know that. So I'm definitely a plant in the audience. Although we have no idea what you're going to say.(...) I'm just kidding. So my question does go back to that decision making piece when it comes to shared leadership because I do have shared leadership with my teammate in India and time zones is a huge challenge for us. So if she does have an emergency or something comes up I'm sleeping. So how do you recommend dealing with those types of things or just creating kind of that expectation and decision making that way. So it's such a good question and I honestly think that it goes back to what we talked about earlier. So in India if you have shared leadership it would go to you know what to say a conchia. Right. So you have somebody who's there who you know can answer those questions in an emergency situation making sure that that person knows that they are that contact making sure that your teammate knows that if you are not available for sleeping or any other reason that that's who they go to. And then making sure that they know whenever that resolution happens to send you an email. So when you do get up in the morning and you open it you know the emergency that happened what the resolution was and what you have to do to follow up. So if you keep setting that expectation of let me know what happened. Let me know if you need me or are you just telling me what happened and everything's solved. Does that help. Yeah. So just making sure that those connections are always there and I cannot stress enough the connection with those people who are matrix leading your team. It's so incredible. It's so critical. It's so so critical. We have so many sites right. So it's also exactly what you're saying. It's important to have a local leader somebody there that the teammate can also rely on even though their team may be all around the country around the world. Having that leader that they can again be that site leader for them. Absolutely. Not only for visibility there locally but even opportunities right for networking and events that happen. It's actually pretty cool. I mean again I have a teammate in Conway Brock. He is so plugged into my Conway folks. He's always constantly doing things and that's another opportunity for him to grow develop his brand but then be plugged in there locally. So yeah.
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Other questions. Andre Gallo. So I'm in the sales org.(...) I think I think now more than ever this concept is super important. Pods you know some meds and services here and sales over there and you know.(...) So what I'm finding is that for my teammates sometimes they feel like there's too many cooks in the kitchen. Right. That's the biggest thing I see.(...) Shelly.(...) We work together our teammates work together different departments right. But you know whether it has to do with sales or whatever it's just too many cooks in the kitchen. Sometimes I think the clarity is not there and I think that's something that I feel I need to work better at. But I feel like I'm not there to make those decisions sometimes. Sometimes they're being made in engineering. Rather than sales. Right. And I don't even get to be part of that. Right. So I'm having the difficulty like how do you inject myself in there and make sure that the team knows that we're going to follow the same goal and that there is a unity. And they understand that even if Shelly says something or somebody else says something that the focus is the same and the goal is the same. Right. It might not be coming from me but as long as we understand that we're meeting that goal but they don't see it that way sometimes they see it as there's too many cooks in this kitchen. I'm getting orders from everywhere. But it's a right. That's a big part of the challenge. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But that's why I think this conversation is so important especially right now with the transformation that we're having. I agree. So I love this question and I'm going to ask you a question really quickly. So when you're looking at the pod how many leaders are typically in that pod that's really servicing that client. About three to five. OK. And then do you have those shared leadership meetings. Is there like an every other week or even once a month where those leaders are getting together to talk through things. Very generic. I think they become more updates on what's going on in the region like you guys were saying earlier.
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But it's not very specific to the team right. Because you might have a north south and a south team but it's the entire east. Yeah we're talking about the entire east but we don't focus it on the north or we don't focus on the south. Right. So it's a very generic. We're working on this project and this is what happened right.
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But yeah we don't have that cadence because then I would have to speak to our meetings all day long. And that's not doable. Yeah. Exactly.(...) So I think and I will you please jump into. Absolutely. But what I'm thinking here is any time something like that comes up it's that not to be in meetings all day because nobody can. Nobody has time for that. But making sure that you do have those connections where you do get together and talk about the updates. I would say at the end of that meeting you should have a challenges it like 10 minutes of a challenges conversation where you say to the other leaders OK. What challenges have come up. Where where do we maybe need to connect better or align better in leadership. Have you heard anything from your teammates. Here's what I'm hearing from mine and just block off a little bit of time. So you have that. But also I would say as soon as you run into an issue like that have a conversation and hold accountable. So if somebody else is leading one of your teammates and you don't know what's going on as soon as you hear about that making sure that you're talking to that team that you're talking to that leader and you're getting that connection. Because the more that you do that the more people come used to reaching out to you when those things happen and it's not about bringing another cook into the kitchen it's literally about informing you.
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That's what it's about it's about letting you know what is happening with your teammates and their clients and what you need to know in order for them to be successful and what you need to know to lead them. And it goes all it goes all the different ways right. If there's four or five leaders everybody should be doing that to each other and that challenge piece of that meeting will be so incredibly helpful because then you go oh yeah you remember standing we were talking about that the other day. We got that resolved but here's what happened just to make sure it doesn't happen again and you're learning as you go. It really is relationship building and it really is putting in that effort up front so that everybody is bringing you know who to bring in. Right. So it is changing that. Does that help. Does that kind of. You know it's so funny when you said too many chefs in the kitchen I'm thinking I love food. So I mean if everybody's putting seasoning and stuff but nobody's tasting it. Nobody's having that. It's like it's at the end it's to be a surprise or a mess. Right. So you got to take those time to temperature to taste and see like hey are we on the right track. This is what is this the outcome we want. Right. But I love what you just said leaving at the end. Hey what are the challenges that will build trust. That way they know hey they actually do care.(...) But then at the end right. We kind of make the right. We start making the right decisions. One last thing. I think that has that that will work as well. The beginning of every meeting and this was something from Thayer. They talked about we spent so much time firefighting that we need to actually spend some time in the meetings to do fire prevention. Absolutely. And say hey what are we what can we do better in the future to stop or minimize some of these fires. And again if there's a lot of chefs in the kitchen we can now discuss that and minimize that. So I love that that that term it definitely makes for me anyways is close to my heart. So love it. Wow. Time flies. Look at that. Are we really done. Yeah we're coming to the end. So any final final final thoughts. So today we discussed a lot of the ever changing landscape with leadership and teamwork guided by the principles of shared leadership and also the matrix management matrix.(...) If you guys enjoyed the content today please be sure to like hit the notifications to to always get the first sneak peek at our all of our content. Thank you so much. And until next time. Thank you everybody. Appreciate it everyone.
Host
Z Tinoco is a diversity, leadership & organization development manager who believes in building teams, inspiring minds and creating authentic connections. He helps people reach their goals and find success through humor, leadership and a diverse mindset.
Co-host
Richard is an experienced paid media specialist with a proven track record of creating and executing successful campaigns across various platforms. Richard has a passion for tackling new challenges, connecting with people and loves all things tech.
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