By Insight Editor / 21 Jun 2023 / Topics: Culture & careers
When thinking about leadership, some may believe it’s inherent or simply comes naturally. But, the mark of a true leader is their ability to drive thoughtful change – with a consistent focus on long-term improvement and optimization. With the right perspective, you can be a confident and passionate leader. In this episode, we also examine behaviors and examples of non-leaders to help you refine your own approach to meaningful leadership.
To experience this week’s episode, listen on the player above, watch the conversation below or scroll down to read a complete transcript. You can also subscribe to Leading With Insight on Apple Podcasts, Pandora and Spotify.
Audio transcript:
Z Tinoco
Are you a leader and should everyone be a leader? That is a question we're going to answer in today's episode. Although my name is Z
Richard Rieves
I'm rich, Hey Z, I heard you had another emcee gig recently.
Z
I did. Actually, I did here in the headquarters. And it was a it was a fun event, man. So just I don't know if you know much about it, but we had our very first device day here at Insite, where we brought in a lot of our customers to connect with a lot of a lot of our manufacturers.
Z
Right? A lot of our cus a lot of our partners, including HP, Lenovo, Microsoft and so on. And it was fun to do. I mean, first of all, they trust me with talking to customers. That was great. Thank you. But at the same time, I was really good. I just you know, first of all, connect with our customers as a as insight, but also for me personally, to connect with people that either I haven't met before, first time, but also old acquaintances.
Z
I actually bumped into an old colleague of mine from a previous organization. At first I didn't. I kind of, you know. Have you ever had that feeling when you see somebody like I think I now know them? Yeah, I had that was like, I think I know them. And then they came and approached me, said their name. We just hit it off like we went back, back in time in.
Z
And what I love about that, though, is that we just started sharing, you know, our journey and where we are today. And he's enjoying his job, his organization, of course, I share that. I'm enjoying what I'm doing here and what I have a passion for. But then we went on to like, Hey, what are you what are you doing?
Z
You know, are you doing the things that you want to do? And he said, No, you know, actually, I want to do like a podcast. I want to I want to do a bit more. And I asked him, why not? And I think what a lot of us is, you know, we tend to kind of self-sabotage ourselves. You know, I'm not good enough.
Z
Who wants to listen to me? And what we're going to talk about. Today's topic is also like, well, who wants to follow me? Ray? My really somebody that people want to look up to and follow and be a leader is what today's is all about.
Richard
Yeah, absolutely. And just kind of, you know, reiterate what we talked about in the last episode. Our leadership commitments and, you know, how that can reinforce, you know, some of those leadership styles and skills and just kind of really hold you accountable as a leader because leadership takes a lot of work. It's, you know, it's not just a title.
Z
Yeah. Speaking of titles, we did have an updated if you know, if you are paying attention to the first episode in the last two rights, your title has changed a little bit. We decided, hey, let's you know what, let's give you a podcast title. And you know, Ambitious Leader is what we came up with. And who knows, it might vary over our episodes, but what do you think about us changing your title to Ambitious Leader?
Richard
Yeah. So first I want to say stay tuned for that. Tune in. Secondly, thanks for bringing that up. Z. Yes, ambitious leader. So the ambitious we'll start off with the ambitious part. So with that part, you know, everything that I try to come to the table with always has that desire and determination. So that's where the ambitious part comes in.
Richard
And the leadership, well, we're leading the charge here with this podcast here. So that's an actually good segway. That's what we're about to discuss here in this podcast. You know, who what does it mean to be a leader and who can be a leader? Am I a leader?
Z
Yeah, well, that's a question you can end up, but don't ask. That's the big question, right? And in this podcast being that it's a leadership podcast, I think it's one of those that we should start off with one of our first episodes to talk about that. And first of all, you know, if you're a person that has followers that people look up to that respect that see you as somebody who's credible, whether you're at, whether you're a manager, whether you're a director, whether it doesn't matter what your title is.
Z
But if people look up to you and they come to you for advice, for guidance, for direction, then you're a leader. And that can be in various different aspects. You know, there's examples of, you know, if it can be your personal life, you know, that can be at work, could be in projects that you do, could be in a circle of friends that you have.
Z
It's in various different aspects that you can be seen as a leader. So, yeah, I mean, if you have if you're in a situation where people look up to you, where they look for guidance, direction for you to make decisions and you're someone that they've seen as credible, then you're a leader. So. QUESTION Are you a leader?
Richard
Yeah. I mean, I would absolutely consider myself a leader.
Z
You're an ambitious, ambitious leader.
Richard
They go and by the title of my podcast title, an ambitious leader, not just a leader. So no, yeah, absolutely. That I love everything that you you mentioned just kind of reinforces that leadership aspect. And you know, the title, whether you do or don't actually have that in your official title, is kind of irrelevant, right? You can still hold yourself to those, those leadership standards.
Richard
Yeah.
Z
One of the things that we talk about here and some of the trainings that we deliver and the programs that we have, we we leverage a lot. We leverage a lot of Franklin Covey content, you know, great content. And of course we any any content that we that we, you know, learn if we get certified in, we also kind of put in our culture spin to it or we try to say how does how does this fit within insight?
Z
Yeah, one of the trainings that we that we deliver is around speed of trust and leading at the speed of trust. And what I love about that training does a lot of it, especially the title being trust. But the number one thing that that talks about is you have to there's a a circle that says, hey, not only in order for it to be credible, for people to trust you and believe you, not only do they have to see that you're a leader, that you're you know, delivering your results or promising what you deliver, but then you also have to speak it right, like, hey, I'm I'm going to do this for you.
Z
I got your back. But then the behaviors compliment that. So it's all complimentary because if all you're saying right, hey, trust me, believe in me, man. I'm your leader. I got your back. But then you're gone for a week, or you asked me to do something, you come back. I didn't do anything yet. You're going to be like, What's up, man?
Z
What's going on? And then? Then you're seeing that I just don't keep up. Keep going on my day. I don't apologize. Add on up to it. You're going to start to lose that credibility and you're going to stop seeing me as a leader. Right? So it's AC speak and behave patterns that I really love and it's something that resonates with me all the time because I'm you know, it keeps me in check.
Z
You know, it's like, hey, I people seeing me, you know, doing the right thing or they see me stand up for my team or they see me do these actions. And I my actions also follow with the right behaviors and patterns. But then the last thing is like, hey, also, am I speaking with confidence? Am I speaking truth?
Z
Am I speaking in a way that a leader should speak? And I think all those really kind of go hand in hand.
Richard
Sure, absolutely. And I don't know that there's any one of those segments that are more important than the other. But yeah, definitely all complement each other and definitely help the leadership aspect. As you mentioned, you know, you can say it all day long, but if you don't follow through with those actions, you know, behind it, coming behind it, you know, it's very important.
Richard
And that, you know, either builds that rapport and that credibility or it can definitely erode it just as quickly.
Z
So, yeah, I mean, things that come to my mind, a lot of examples that we see of leaders that we look and go, yeah, that's something that I want to emulate, that I want to take on. And same thing with the bad behaviors, things that I don't want to do with my team, right? I don't want to do what that what they just did or I felt I didn't feel that I was included in and this is what what the leader did or how they made me feel.
Z
But thinking of one example again, I mentioned in a previous episode, Jen Bastian, which is our human resource officer, a Chief human resource officer, and what a story she shared with us. And I love her. I love stories, right? Is that she she has a mentor, somebody who works in the in the you know, in the finance industry.
Z
And she her relationship or mentor mentee relationship is that she mentors him in the human resource elements of his job. But she he mentors her on the financial stuff right. Budgeting and things like that, because those are just like two areas of strength. And in the areas of, of, of, of opportunity to grow. Sure. Well, what are the conversation she had with them?
Z
It was around like, hey, about leadership. And he said that one of the biggest lessons that he learned when he was in college top student you know, I can imagine, you know, honors highest ever took us took us his education serious. His final course leading up to graduation. There was a final exam which of course he studied and got prepared and did everything well When he sat down, sat down for the test or the exam, he noticed there's only one sheet of paper turned upside down, which typically isn't typical.
Z
He's like, You sit here pretty thick, a lot of questions. So he's like, okay, well, this is going to be interesting. I wonder why this one sheet. Then the professor said, Oh, I got to flip your pages over and take the test while he took the test. And there's only one question in there so far sounded pretty good until that he read the question, What is the name of the janitor that services the university or the building?
Z
He he didn't know. He was like, what? I don't even know. We had a janitor. I thought, just like, what does that place clean itself? Like, come on. So he was stopped and he was shocked a little. Maybe I can. I'm not. I'm kind of putting myself in his shoes now to look frustrated, like what I studied and this was something I didn't it.
Z
But the lesson that he learned is that everybody in the organization, everybody you meet, it's important. You shouldn't you shouldn't have a title because you have a title or you have a fancy name in front of you. It would have you a corner office. You're should see yourself as just as everybody else. And everybody has something of value in that.
Z
Just a great example of again, of what is leadership.
Richard
Yeah, absolute. And I'm glad you mentioned that that that story just kind of elaborate and expand on, you know, not just those hard skills of like, you know, the financial aspect, the do the do you bring in the the H.R. aspect of those soft skills, those people skills being empathetic and actually having your being able to speak to the people that you lead and, you know, really, you know, motivating them and allowing them to bring their best selves forward.
Richard
And, you know, that's that all ties in into the major part.
Z
So yeah, in the fact they shared that story and now I'm telling you so it's what I love about stories or like someone tells somebody a story, then they teach somebody else and it becomes like a lesson that goes on and we all can learn from those things. Speaking of the see speak and behave. Also want to give an awesome shout out.
Z
I just found out that one of our executives, Megan Dahl, is again not only speaking and we see her in her leadership, in her behavior. She's actually doing things in the community, right? I think recently we just kind of sent out a press release or information, news information that she's help a part of the that the Boys and Girls Club in Miami.
Z
Yeah. And you know their to offer them and offer them several devices and several other things to set them up for success which is for me, again, someone who's giving back to the community, going out there, doing this in person, and instead of just saying here, go on and send this to them like her being there, wanted this, wanted to thank them and, you know, encourage them to use to, you know, use technology.
Z
Right. To get out. Get them and get them.
Richard
And yeah, so awesome, so awesome to be partnering with that Boys and Girls club for that elementary school, 78 laptops. I mean, that's no small feat. So definitely, definitely some major, major credibility there. So awesome, actually. So let me ask you something. When did you first see yourself as a leader?
Z
Oh, wow. It all started in the world. No, no, it's interesting looking back, because that's a that's a good question, because, you know, my first reaction or a lot of people's reaction be like, well, when I first became a manager and was responsible for leading a team, but then I look at I look further back because my first sort of be like when I was 18, I had a manager 7-Eleven and a not so nice part of town, but it was in before then.
Z
It was or not when I grew up, actually, when, you know, when I was the oldest of four and I had a responsibility to make sure that I, you know, kind of showed the way to my younger siblings and that I do a good job. I'm going to say a decent job, not a good not the best, because there were times that I let the the power, the title of the Big Brother get, get, get the best of me example if I heard this, if you have kids or maybe if you had an older brother and maybe you were that older brother, parents leave or they put you in charge and all of a sudden
Z
you have this power trip like I'm the boss, you know, you ain't the boss of me. You know, kind of the back and forth I got. I'm the boss, I'm the leader. And that that didn't go so well. You know, it kind of reminds the people, kind of like the pitchforks. And, you know, they had already done that, you know, just to overturn my leadership.
Z
But there was that was, you know, very few and far between the majority of time, like I would lead by example, I would be there for them. If they were struggling, I would, you know, help them through their homework, going to school myself, you know, getting, you know, going to college, kind of painting that way as well. And that's that's definitely where I felt like my when I first realized a guy I was a leader, like at that stage, you know, and it kind of just went on from there.
Z
Yeah. How about how about you and when did you find it?
Richard
Yeah, great question. So actually, we share a similar story. I'm the oldest of four as well, so I don't know if I attribute everything to that aspect, but probably a large portion of it. And also the parents. Thanks, Mom and dad also just, you know, throughout grade school, always performing, did well in school, you know, top of my class in high school and college, things like that.
Richard
So I always felt the need to, you know, push it to the next level and always bring my best self and perform to the best of my abilities. So I think that's kind of really what where it's maybe not so much started, but where I actually realized it. And then from that aspect, just moving into insight, coming, joining insight, you know, just reinforcing those leadership, you know, any of our leadership principles and values.
Richard
So I think that kind of, you know, sums it up.
Z
It's funny that we have that in common, man. Did you ever, ever, ever get in trouble for something that wasn't your fault, even though your siblings did it.
Richard
All the time? The finger point, he did it like, what do I say?
Z
Right? You know, they did it. But then they go back to, like you said, you should have, you know, should have done something about it.
Richard
Exactly. Yeah. You still have that responsibility, right?
Z
So back to that man. Responsibility, right. Knowing that it is a responsibility, like it's not going to be like I whatever I you know, it's not like a royalty and saying what I say goes and everybody does whatever I want around me. Because again, we know by history example that doesn't work so well. Right. Going back I said I was a manager at a 7-Eleven at 18.
Z
That was an interesting learning curve for me too, right? So going through high school, completed high school, had to then pay for my college and pay my way. So I had an opportunity. After working at a gas station in high school, I knew the owner very well. His son in law was opening up a 7-Eleven and right away recommended me, which was again awesome.
Z
Right? But again, that shows maybe he saw leadership. He's like, he's doing what I tell him to do. He's, you know, people are coming to him to me for advice, for guidance, for recommendations, Like I would pick stuff up quickly. So he recommended so he, you know, again, offered me the job. I was super. So I was surprised, by the way, what enticed me to get the role for some, like, I don't know, am I a leader?
Z
He goes, I got a Motorola Razr for you that I'm going to give you. Sold. That's a cool phone over back then. Yeah, give me that Razr. But as soon as I got to the biggest challenge, man, everybody that was working there at the at the store were probably in there maybe late and maybe thirties, late forties. You know, also several of them were from other countries or immigrants.
Z
So and then with their culture then, you know, they really value senior not seniority, but they value, you know, their elders and people that have experience. So right away then who is this kid at 18 going to manage us? So I had that pushback and it was tough at first. I could have easily got power Trip be like, Hey, I'm the manager at the title.
Z
I got this job and just start barking orders. But quickly I realized that's not going to work. I can see the hesitation and it's just something that I notice, right? I can see them not not looking me in the eyes, looking away, kind of brushing things off. You had to be assertive 100%, but assertive in a way that it was more like, you know, confident.
Z
And what I'm saying, following up, checking in with them, doing doing it, doing the job to like rolling up my sleeves, don't just sit in the back, like getting in there, going through this, asking for their advice. Another thing, what do what do you think works here? What's not working? What do you recommend? Things like that. And little by little, I build trust with them.
Z
And then, you know, we ended up working well. And I mean that for me, that was the challenge at first. But again, all the things that I've learned over the years led me to make that led me to have a, you know, a good experience overall. So, yeah, that's great.
Richard
Yeah, that's amazing. And, you know, kind of also illustrates not only do you talk the talk, you walk the walk and it's not just about, you know, you being the leader and you dictating that, but you're also saying, hey, we're a team here. Like, I'm going to roll up my sleeves and I'm going to help you and I'm going to, you know, whatever we need to accomplish, we're going to do this together as a team that those that in itself is such a good leadership quality that, you know, so many, I think, lack.
Richard
So that great example there.
Z
But if you tell me, you know, maybe five, ten years ago or, you know, five, ten years ago, I probably would have never thought of that. I want to just kind of think like, I guess I am, maybe. But then you just I challenge all of you, right, to kind of look at your history and what you've done in your life.
Z
And I'm confident that you'll find examples where you demonstrated leadership abilities or you had the opportunity to be seen as a leader that we just take for granted. And now looking back on my yeah, that was actually a good part, a great learning opportunity in my life that now I can look back and going, Oh, those are a lot of good lessons at a time.
Z
I didn't even know. I never I never went through leadership training. I never knew that, right? It was all just by doing right. So.
Richard
Exactly. Yeah. So, so you give us some good examples about leadership and your leadership styles, things of that nature. So let's talk a little bit. Let's let's shift focus a little bit. What about some examples of non leaders? Let's let's talk about that aspect.
Z
Yeah, well, you know what I like about you moving transitioning to that question is that you took the biggest I would say in there. But yeah I think that's a good call that as well. So again, we're talking about, you know, are you a leader? Should everybody be a leader? I think we've hopefully addressed the question of are you a leader?
Z
Yes, you can be. It takes work, right? It takes work. And it's not something that you just can easily just take it and go with it. But the quote, the second part of that, can everybody be a leader? And I'm going to say, yes, they can. But again, some are not ready to be leaders or not shouldn't be leaders at a time.
Z
Great example of non leaders. Well, again, these are leaders or individuals who go into a position or role of responsibility and see it more as wanting to go after the reward, wanting the recognition for themselves, like the title, like the the power, the ability to have others do the hard work where you enjoy the fun stuff, right? Not to say that leadership isn't fine, of course it's rewarding, it's hard, but it's rewarding.
Z
But people that are not leaders are the ones that basically have all the fun but don't do any of the work. Yeah, I don't have that. Going back to that example of that executive, that mentor of Gen is once again, you know, Hey, are you treating everybody wash back? Are you getting to treat everybody as equal? You don't see yourself above anybody else.
Z
You're there if you're not there to serve, you know your team and be a part of a team that definitely it's not a non leader. Do you have any examples of a non leader B or do you agree or.
Richard
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I mean, just going back to our previous experiences, you know, I've worked in sales as well and you know, I've had a boss, I won't divulge too much information, but you know, being in sales, you always want to go after B the lead salesman, you know, sell as much as possible. Sell, sell, sell. That's kind of the mentality behind it.
Richard
So it was always a point of, you know, them dictating the orders and then us carrying out the sales or whatever we had to do. And from that aspect, I can definitely understand the the leadership versus boss or, you know, kind of how you framed it before where, you know, the leaders are will get in there and roll up their sleeves and help you and develop you versus the boss who will, you know, maybe just bark orders or kind of dictates without, you know, any reinforcement or back up or letting you know that they're part of the team?
Richard
Yeah, they're part of the team. They may be taking all the credit for it, but, you know, it's it's not you know, it's not a shared responsibility. It's not really, you know, lifting up your people and being that true leader that, you know, we kind of develop here at INSIGHT.
Z
Yeah, you covered a couple of things. This is what I love about these conversations because as you're sharing and you're giving me examples right away, what I thought about is another thing as I'm not leader is taking the credit, you know, and not sharing it abundantly. I you know, maybe you did have a part of doing it or you made the final decision, but there was a lot of steps and people in the people that led up to that.
Z
And I would even say a leader actually gives more credit than they take themselves. You like I say, my team did this, you know, Rich, you know, I don't know if you met Rich, but you got to meet. He does this right. You know, Stacy is she's a you know, she she's a guru when it comes to this.
Z
Next time there's a project I would highly recommend whatever. Right. You promote and you you say proudly aloud about what your team does. And when people start to give you that recognition instead of just being quiet about it and kind of going, Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty cool. Yeah, that's right. It's like, you know what? Thank you. But actually was a team effort, man.
Z
And I have a lot of a lot of people behind that made this happen and give some examples so that's another good call that a non leader is one that takes all the credit. Yeah it's a horrible feeling, man. Yeah, definitely doing that and yeah. And yeah, we're not going to share any loan examples so I'm glad you all names are are innocent until proven guilty.
Z
Yeah they but I'm thinking about other examples of non leaders and that once again you know it's those individuals who again seem let me give you an example. I remember in my earlier my career there was those individuals, teammates or individuals that would seek the title, that would go after the shiny corner office. And for me, that was always a red flag.
Z
I'm like, You know what? That isn't a good sign right now. The fact that they're going after that, that means they're very reward centric. A good book recommendation is called The Motive by Patrick Lynch, Tony. And he talks about these two types of leader. Right there is the reward centric versus the responsibility based leader. And that's one of the tools in the books and the references that we use for our aspiring leadership program, which, by the way, already tells me that you're going to be a part of it here soon.
Z
So that will be something, as we go through the podcast, see what you're learning.
Richard
Absolutely. And I'm very excited for that. I know it's going to be a large undertaking, but definitely excited, definitely ready for it and wish I could have made it happen, you know, this quarter. But there's a lot of things flying around as always, how to make some schedule adjustments and now, now we're in we're in the good. Yeah.
Z
And it's funny because we talked about that, our first episode, we're always busy, but we'll see. I want to be realistic to yourself. Yeah, but make sure that you find that proper balance where it's not something that you're going to stretch yourself too thin, but also make it happen. Do it and it's not. So like you said. No, it's like not right now.
Z
But you said Keith and that's one. So, yeah, you know, when you say that, you know, you have somebody hold you accountable. We got you. We're like, All right, man. Exactly.
Richard
Yeah. Well, I mean, and as much as it means to me, I know I wanted to give my 400% right. You know, as I mentioned before, I want to bring the best of myself, perform at the best of my abilities. And I knew that, you know, this quarter was a little little heavy on the workload, so I had to push on it.
Z
So it's another element.
Richard
Oh, yeah. Good. Good call. Good color. My minor detail.
Z
I just I just want to give a shout out to the work that you're putting in the back end, you know, getting the communication, being really the project manager of this whole podcast and kind of directing it. I just can't thank you enough, man. This one. Thank you. Taking place. If it was a partnership and all your hard work myself.
Z
Thank you.
Richard
Thank you. See good leadership skills, everyone in action.
Z
Yes. Awesome. Man. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that kind of we I hope we answered today's questions If we did it, you know, again, let us know and discuss in or, you know, any outlet that you're watching this episode. Let us know what other questions you have around this topic. We'll always bring back these topics. Yeah, we keep discussing this are going to be just one and done.
Richard
Yeah. So we talked about, you know, what it means to be a leader who can be a leader. You know, different examples of that and even examples of, you know, some, some skills that maybe don't necessarily lead themselves to or lend themselves to, you know, an apt leader or somebody who we would train. So and, you know, is there anything else that I missed in that Z?
Z
I know again, just to get you a leader. Yeah. You can't. Yes, you are a leader. He does have to now put the work into it, right. Yeah. To have people to look up to you follow you, you have to be someone that's credible. And we have we talked about credibility. There are therefore, there's elements that kind of make up credibility.
Z
And we can put that in future episodes. But yeah, you have to you have to establish that credibility with individuals. And that's not only applies to leadership, but applies to giving feedback and sharing thoughts. People are going to be poor up to like, Oh my gosh, yeah, well, everything that Rich says around this is goal listed. So I think that's another aspect of it.
Z
So yes, you are a leader, but you had to put in the work, you had to be responsive. You know, you were you have a responsibility in your hands and it's totally doable. Now, can everybody be a leader in the answer to that? I hate to say it, but oh, if they are not in it for the right reasons, the right motives, and just for the reward, taking all the credit, then you know, I'm sorry, but you're not a leader and it's sometimes, hey, it's okay.
Z
Step down. Let somebody who can do that role. Maybe at the time you suddenly develop your leadership. And we talked about that always, always develop your skills, develop your leadership. And this is what another outlet is. This podcasts continue to join us every episode. A quick shout out. I had a few teammates reach out to me saying, Hey, I really already love what you're putting out.
Z
I've been listening to your first episode, set a call up with me once again, right in these connections and wanted to know more about what I do, how we can align or partner, and then for advice. So already we're seeing results. Great people finding value in this.
Richard
Yeah. And actually, for more stories of our leaders in action, follow us on social media. And if this episode resonates with you, like and subscribe to our podcast for the latest episodes.
Host
Z Tinoco is a diversity, leadership & organization development manager who believes in building teams, inspiring minds and creating authentic connections. He helps people reach their goals and find success through humor, leadership and a diverse mindset.
Co-host
Richard is an experienced paid media specialist with a proven track record of creating and executing successful campaigns across various platforms. Richard has a passion for tackling new challenges, connecting with people and loves all things tech.
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